Ken writes: I know a couple of Irish people who are native speakers of the indigenous language of this island. And they are adamant that it must be called ‘Irish’ not ‘Gaelic’. They convey this with a surprising depth of feeling, but a philosopher is naturally perverse: I can’t help wondering why I shouldn’t call it ‘Gaelic’ anyway. OK, they are native speakers of the language in question, but against that, they’re talking about how to refer to the language in English, and I’m a native speaker of English. I can confirm that ‘Gaelic’ is a name (in English) for that language (it’s also very similar to the Gaelic for Gaelic (‘as gaeilge‘ is ‘in Gaelic’ in Gaelic)). Is it perhaps derogatory? like the N-word? Well, no it’s not derogatory not in the least. And it would be very unfair to people who use the word to take them to be speaking of the Irish language in a derogatory way. It’s wrong to take offence where none is intended. Should it be avoided because it risks confusing Scottish Gaelic, and Manx Gaelic with Irish Gaelic? Yes maybe, except that by and large the context will make it obvious whether one intends Irish Gaelic or one of the other varieties. For example, if one asked about the standard of Gaelic teaching in Irish schools, it should be perfectly obvious from the context that one intends Irish Gaelic and not one of the other varieties.
2 January, 2008...8:13 pm
Irish vs. Gaelic
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11 Comments
2 January, 2008 at 8:23 pm
History breeds far more depth of feeling than context can relieve.
2 January, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I don’t understand this comment at all. The history of conflict between Britain and Ireland might well generate profound depth of feeling, but how does that bear of the choice between saying ‘Irish’ and saying ‘Gaelic’? Couldn’t history also have led to a preference for saying ‘Gaelic’ over saying ‘Irish’?
3 January, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Ken,
I think the usages ‘Gaeilge’ in Irish and ‘Irish’ in English are consistent with the Constitution’s usage regarding the name of the state, ‘Eire’ in Irish and ‘Ireland’ in English.
I would like to see consistency in the placenames: Baile Breac/Speckled Town, but not Ballybrack!
3 January, 2008 at 7:44 pm
How do you feel about referring to Dublin as Blackpool?
3 January, 2008 at 8:02 pm
But it would be ‘Town of the Ford of the Hurdles.’ We would quickly learn Baile Atha Cliath!
6 March, 2009 at 6:27 am
well, to ME, being the child of a us flamin Fenian who never set foot in Ireland would give me “the look” if I said “Gaelic” vs “Irish.” He also raised me that “Irish aren’t white,” which I find fascinating. When my peers blasted me during JFK”s election, he said–kinda like the late, great mystic Howard Thurman–, “Look, baby, you live in MS; it’s 1960; you have been raised right to honour ALL people, even if I have trouble with the English in Ireland and the Six Counties and trouble with the first group of your church, the Episcopal Church’s connection to the Anglican Church. “(He LOATHED Robin Eames and that whole ridiculous Windsor Repotr about GLBT peoplS (“Have none of those people read the SOUND biblical scholarship of the last 50 years and especially the last ten? Good grief.” I think he may have disliked Eames more than I. “Look at the racial atrocities of the US, the US South, and MS and tell me if you know of any white people who were and ARE treated the way of the Irish…of COURSE we’re not white, we’re Irish.” So HE, my da, God rest his soul, would vote for “Irish.” He would laughing say “there IS no other Gaelic” when I said I was only trying to distinguish WHOSE Gaelic. Call it Scottish or Cornish or whatever, but I was taught the word is ‘Irish’.”
7 March, 2009 at 9:30 pm
I say “Irish”.
At school the class was called “Irish Class”.
The Gealtacht was marketed as a place to improve your Irish.
I have to say hearing it called Gaelic does cause vein twitching. I don’t know why, and it is the only thing I feel strongly about as regards any kind of national feeling.
11 March, 2009 at 12:24 am
There are 3 Gaelic languages that I know of still in use, Irish, Scots Gaelic and Manx. Refering to Irish as gaelic would be comparable to refering to English as being West Germanic as it is a West Germanic language. I am always perplexed and annoyed when visitors to Ireland continue to believe that they know better than the Irish speakers in Ireland what Irish is called. No one expects you to know everything,but I have met several visitors who have persisted in refering to Irish as Gaelic even when it has been explained patiently to them that this is offensive.
14 April, 2009 at 12:28 am
From some of the comments posted it seems that this is an issue of nationalism and not really related directly to language. My grandparents from the Hebrides spoke Gaidhlig, or said in English, Gaelic.
I think in Ireland the language was part of the nationalist movement, and so the language was necessarily linked to the country. This is not the case in Scotland. Gaels were regularly called “Erse” and were even seen by some as foreigners, despite a continuing presence in the country for more than 1500 years.
Still, it looks as though Irish and Gaelic will not be around past this century, so by that time you can call what you wish. Oh well.
16 April, 2009 at 9:16 pm
@ Ciara,
(Sorry, I didn’t see your comment until now)
It is foolish to get offended by people who don’t mean any offence. Most native speakers of English from the US or New Zealand or the wider English speaking world think of the indigenous language of Ireland as Gaelic. They don’t mean offence by this, as they haven’t been told otherwise, and anyway, they are not wrong. Gaelic (making allowances for spelling) is how it is called in Gaelic. They are native speakers of English and they are speaking English and using the English word for the language of Ireland. The very worst you can accuse these people of is using a less than perfectly precise term for the language. In my post I anticipated this and said that it is perfectly natural to rely on the context to clear it up. In a petrol station, ‘fuel’ means either petrol or diesel. For a fire, fuel means either coal or wood. Likewise in Scotland ‘Gaelic’ means Scots Gaelic and in Ireland it means Irish Gaelic.
I do take your point about referring to English as ‘West Germanic’ in that it would be true but not precise. But it doesn’t strike me as quite analogous because no one would understand you if you did refer to English as West Germanic. Can you imagine a newspaper columnist fulminating about the teaching of West Germanic in schools? People just wouldn’t get it. The word ‘Gaelic’ is actually used for Irish and you do get what language is meant.
I think, if anything, the word ‘English’ is inaccurate because it’s too precise (see my post here).
@ Coinneach and @ Una
Thanks for your comments.
1 July, 2009 at 1:51 am
Ken,
Keep calling it ‘Irish Gaelic’ because that’s what it is. The problem is that Irish Nationalists have entirely politicised the language by calling it ‘Irish’ to try and associate it with the modern ‘Irish Nation’. This is despite the fact that historically a similar form Gaelic would have been spoken by all across the island, and in other parts of the British Isles. It has become so politicised that a large proportion of Unionists in Ireland (whom many would also have spoken some form of Gaelic back in history) completely disown the language altogether.
Note also that there would have also been many more dialects than the present ’standard’ form of ‘Irish Gaelic’ (the ’standard’ form of ‘Irish Gaelic’ actually being the form of Gaelic originally spoken in southern Connacht, and standardised as recently as in the 1950s after the formation of the Irish Republic).
You might find it hard to believe the pettiness that some of these Irish Nationalists will go to prove that they are part of an ‘Irish Nation’, but it’s all down to a bit of an inferiority complex. You see, they try to define themselves as uniquely ‘Irish’ – and will often strongly identify themselves ‘not British’. They couldn’t possibly admit that they have much in common with people from other parts of the British Isles, and therefore exclude themselves from admitting or showing any association with anything that is common throughout the Isles.
From first hand experience from the other side of the divide,
Paul